Jessica Owens of Initiate Ventures joins Scott McGrew to talk biotech, bold bets, and what happens when venture capital meets whiteboard-stage science. From her early days in a CDC biohazard lab to co-founding an $8 billion cancer detection company, Owens shares inside stories from the front lines of public health and startup investing. It’s a candid, fascinating conversation about the science that doesn’t make headlines, what founders really need to “own,” and why the next big breakthroughs require engineers and biologists to speak the same language.
Jessica Owens of Initiate Ventures joins Scott McGrew to talk biotech, bold bets, and what happens when venture capital meets whiteboard-stage science. From her early days in a CDC biohazard lab to co-founding an $8 billion cancer detection company, Owens shares inside stories from the front lines of public health and startup investing. It’s a candid, fascinating conversation about the science that doesn’t make headlines, what founders really need to “own,” and why the next big breakthroughs require engineers and biologists to speak the same language.
Sara Bueno manages NBC Bay Area's digital platforms. Stephanie Adrouny is the station's news director. If you'd like to get in touch, email us at sandhillroad@nbcuni.com or on any social media platform at @nbcbayarea.
SHR Jessica Owens_mixdown
[00:00:00] Jessica Owens: How hard could it be? This is one of my favorite topics. How hard could it be? Really
[00:00:11] Scott: damn hard. It's really hard,
[00:00:13] Jessica Owens: but, but it's actually the most important thing I think that this generation of innovators can do.
[00:00:22] Scott: I'm Scott McGrew. Welcome to Sandhill Road.
This week Jessica Owens from Initiate Ventures. We'll talk about the complexity of the biotech industry, her investment philosophy, backing founders who sometimes barely have an idea on a white. Board and stories from her past at the Centers for Disease Control.
[00:00:47] Jessica Owens: I can tell you that when I worked there, I saw things that never made the news and we, we should all be really glad that those people cleaned those things up.
But I saw things that got cleaned up that didn't make the news all over the world. I mean. Things that were crazy
[00:01:08] Scott: coming up right after this. Um, this is very casual. We can edit around it. If we get halfway down a sentence and you're like, what was the question?
[00:01:18] Jessica Owens: Yeah.
[00:01:18] Scott: You know, I'm totally just throw your hands in the air.
[00:01:20] Jessica Owens: Okay.
[00:01:21] Scott: Uh, and, uh, say Hold on, hold on, hold on.
[00:01:24] Jessica Owens: Jazz hands means we got jazz hands. Everybody. Exactly. Jazz hands
[00:01:25] Scott: means cuts. Okay. Uh. Okay. Well, so your firm's motto is be bold and own it. What does that mean to you? Great question. Um,
[00:01:36] Jessica Owens: terrific question. Way to start. Uh, so Initiate Ventures, be bold and own it.
Uh, you know, I started my career as a scientist and, uh, then became lucky enough to become a venture capitalist at Kleiner Perkins, and then spent the next decade of my career as an entrepreneur. And, um. There's two pieces to be bold and own it. One is that we want to invest in and be part of things that are gonna change the world.
And that's the be bold thing. You know, is, is what, is what the, are the projects we're working on, are they incremental or are they going to, um, create lasting significance in the world? That's the be bold. And then I think the own, it has two pieces to it. One is. Um, what's really accounta like, what's really important to us as a core value is accountability, right?
So own it, right? Accountability. Sometimes you're right, sometimes you're wrong, but own it. And then the other is, as an entrepreneur, um, we want our entrepreneurs to own it, and it's really important from an equity per perspective to have the ownership that makes it worth it to you. And so, um, as an early stage firm, we are both, um, you know, a seed.
A stage investor, but we also, part of our strategy is around inceptions. And so the part of that strategy that is around inceptions, um, I think sometimes, uh, the category of venture studios gets a bad rap for sort of not giving or sharing enough equity with, with entrepreneurs. And, um, uh, we think it's really important that our entrepreneurs.
Own it.
[00:03:16] Scott: You say venture studios? Yeah. And not incubator, is that right? Roughly the same thing.
[00:03:20] Jessica Owens: So venture studios I think are, are different in that, um, the partners in the Venture Studio and the venture firm really act like co-founders in the businesses. Yeah. Right. And so we share in common stock and, um, I think there's a, a.
Uh, sort of a range of equity that, you know, from firm to firm. Some firms own more, some firms own less. Some firms own 80% of the common stock and then hire in a CEO. That is not our model. Um, we own less. Of the common stock and, and that own it pieces be bold and also for our entrepreneurs to own it.
[00:03:54] Scott: Right. And when we talk about, I mean, how early some of these investments are. Yeah. Sometimes it's an idea looking for, for a staff to, to, to figure it out. Right. Well,
[00:04:03] Jessica Owens: so yeah, that's early. That's early. That's early. So an idea, um, we've done a couple of them that are that early. Um, an idea, uh. And maybe some, you know, some sketches and some technology and, uh, some proof of concept.
Um, but around a market that is been, uh, been waiting for a long time. And so, uh, we will do things that early, um, usually around things that we have a lot of experience in depth in. So I can give you some examples of those if, if you'd like to talk about them.
[00:04:35] Scott: Mostly health, right?
[00:04:35] Jessica Owens: Oh yeah. And, and, and in very specific areas.
Um, one I could tell you about, you know, I'd been watching a market for, for seven years, waiting for it to unfold. And then someone came to me with something and I said, you know, but the problem with that market is, and then he said, no, but this thing has happened in the market. It's changed, and I have the technology.
And, and we looked at it together and, and sure enough there was a drug about to be approved and then it was approved and, and then we launched together. So, and, and it was at the time just an idea and a little proof of concept,
[00:05:04] Scott: but it, you wouldn't have known right place, right time unless you had thought through the concept of the idea to begin with.
[00:05:10] Jessica Owens: Yeah, and I Exactly. And, and exactly and seven years I had been thinking through that concept.
[00:05:16] Scott: What is it about? Luck is preparation equals opportunity. Exactly. Something that, exactly, exactly. You mentioned that you were a venture partner and then a startup founder, and then a venture partner. Again, that gives you a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge about both sides of the transaction,
[00:05:29] Jessica Owens: right?
That's exactly right. So I was a partner at Kleiner Perkins, um, for four years and working across many, many investments. Um, and that was therapeutics, medical devices, um, uh, life sciences tools, um, many transactions. And, uh, then went out into the operating world. Um, I was then at verse in ventures, but as an EIR starting a company.
So I was a CEO, started a company with rock health and then founded a company called co-founded, a company called Grail that I operated in for five years. That company was acquired in 2021, so there was a whole decade there of. Operating in companies. Um, and the last company was acquired for $8 billion, uh, by Illumina.
And that's when I said, okay, I'm ready to actually apply all of this to my own firm and really help founders, um, and saw the opportunity for something really unique in the market. You know, we're, we're very focused. We have a very concentrated strategy,
[00:06:25] Scott: and yet you still have your toe in the water of being a founder because you are dealing with companies that are just barely more than just a, a, a diagram on a whiteboard.
[00:06:34] Jessica Owens: Oh, absolutely. I mean, we are in many ways a, a, a very traditional seed investor. We invest in seed stage companies. Um, you know, our average check is one to 3 million, and our portfolio is comprised of things. You know, the incubation side that we help found. And then about half of the portfolio is seed and series A stage companies.
So in many ways a typical ventures firm, only half of our portfolio is, is some of these that we help found.
[00:07:02] Scott: And then, uh, many of these, I assume you keep secret, uh, what they call stealth in the industry because these are not ideas like, hey, food delivery. These are ideas about very specific diseases or drug treatments in which you don't want the rest of the world to know that you've got this.
Not quite figured out. You'll tell them when it is.
[00:07:20] Jessica Owens: Yeah. And, and oftentimes there's patents that are filed Yeah. That we're waiting for them to become public. And, you know, when those patents become public and, and other things, you know, there, there's timing even around, you know, you'd like to get some data, you'd like to actually be able to file a press release when you have data in hand and you can tell someone how well it works and even, uh, have a physician or a researcher.
Present that at a podium at a conference, and so you kind of just like to keep things quiet until you actually have something to talk about.
[00:07:48] Scott: I would imagine most of your portfolio and your founders are people who are familiar with the industry because healthcare and biotech and that kind of thing is not something you just walk into.
Although I think there's the temptation, right? Because you look at a problem in biotech or or healthcare and you say. I've solved problems, you know, in this industry, in that industry. I'll just walk in and try to figure out the, you know, uh, uh, how hard could it be?
[00:08:14] Jessica Owens: How hard could it be? This is one of my favorite topics.
How hard could it be? Really
[00:08:19] Scott: damn hard.
[00:08:20] Jessica Owens: It's really hard, but, but it's actually the most important thing I think that this generation of innovators can do is that we need, um, cross. Functional collaboration between great data scientists and engineers and, uh, clinical developers and biologists. Uh, we need both of those expertise in a company.
And Grail was, grail was a brilliant, brilliant example of, of what can happen when you can get. Those disciplines to try to speak the same language and collaborate, and it's also really, really hard. Um, but Grail was an early, grail was a company that was creating and has created a blood test to detect all kinds of cancers from a, a single blood draw.
It's a really, really hard product to make. Um, the, it has the potential to save millions and millions of lives. But when you think about the types of expertise you need in a company like that. Um, you need, you know, computational science that comes from ai, from Google and, and, and great software engineers.
You need, um, clinical developers and, and oncologists from Genentech. You need engineers from Illumina, I mean. You need all these people working together speaking the same language, with the overlay of the regulation of the FDA. You need agile. You need also then put agile developers next to people who have stage gates and then all speak the same language and.
I think that's actually one of the greatest challenges, right? Is when you get those people working together in lockstep, that's where, that's where the magic happens. That's where you can build products of lasting significance that really change the world. And when you think about, um, what's possible with a product like that, you can save more lives than.
All of the advances in cancer therapeutics in the last 25 years. Right. And so like, that's the stuff that actually really lights me up. It's not just, you know, biotech or life sciences. It's taking the advances in AI and applying those to life sciences. And I think that's, it's, it's not actually that easy to put people in a, into a company together and say, okay, duke it out and make it work.
So I really think that's where the magic happens.
[00:10:38] Scott: Has anyone ever underestimated what you know. About this industry? 'cause you know a lot.
[00:10:43] Jessica Owens: Yeah. Oh, oh. Are you asking me if I've been, um, like mansplained science or, oh, yeah. Basically, yeah. Yes, yes. Oh, um, math, let me, let me
[00:10:55] Scott: mansplain my question to you. Yeah.
[00:10:56] Jessica Owens: Yeah. Yes. And, and not, yes. Uh, or math lots of times. Yeah. I love math. I'm really good at math. I get people explain math to me, like I don't understand math all the time.
[00:11:07] Scott: Gimme an example. Maybe don't use names, but,
[00:11:09] Jessica Owens: oh, I mean, it's, I think actually it's not just even, I think it's, if you, if you have strength or any background in one of those columns, it's easy to.
Expect that you may not have depth in another. So even if I was a data scientist, I might not ex expect that someone would deeply understand cell biology. Sure. So I might, you know, try to really simply dumb it down for them. But I think there's also merit in that because trying to get everyone on the same level.
You gotta get everyone on the same level at some point, right? And so everyone in the room knows different levels of things. I think most of it is not done with any malice. No. It, it's often just, let's all get to a point we can understand. And often I am in a, a board meeting where someone is explaining something and I say.
Can you just slow down and say that one more time? 'cause I got most of it.
[00:12:05] Scott: I think that's one of the most brave things you can do in a conference room. Yeah. Is say, is to raise your hand and say, uh, you just used a, a term that, I'm not sure I understand what that is. That, what is it? Was it an acronym? What was that?
Yeah,
[00:12:16] Jessica Owens: yeah, yeah. Just slow down and say, and. Then usually you got it. But yeah. Yeah. It's, and there's a lot of different disciplines and oftentimes when you ask someone to slow down and say it one more time, someone else in the room is glad you did,
[00:12:28] Scott: right? Yes. So,
[00:12:29] Jessica Owens: you know, it's, and it's important that everyone stay on the same page.
[00:12:32] Scott: That said, is there anything in this field that you still are trying to wrap your head around that you think, okay, hold on. I, how does that work?
[00:12:41] Jessica Owens: Um, I'm all the time going off and learning and Googling and making sure I've. I've got stuff. I think in doing due diligence, it's a great opportunity to call up smart people who know way more than me and say, can you explain this to me?
Um, I mean, Chet, GTP is incredible. It's amazing. Amazing as a, as a way to learn, an incredible way to learn. It's a amazing way to learn. And then I think the other thing that's, um, I think the other thing that happens as an investor is sometimes people try to like. Entrepreneurs try to hang on the actual, oh, my science is so complicated that you can't possibly understand it.
But I always wanna know how does the application of your science solve a problem for someone? 'cause I'm just gonna assume this works.
[00:13:31] Scott: Yes.
[00:13:31] Jessica Owens: I'm just gonna assume this works. Sure. It's great. It's fabulous.
[00:13:35] Scott: That said, so what,
[00:13:36] Jessica Owens: so what. Yeah, let's, let's get to the, so what and then we'll get back to like, I can diligence whether or not the science works, but Yeah.
So
[00:13:45] Scott: is there something in your, in your childhood that made you interested in, in science and math, or are you just, I'm. Good at science and math and therefore that's why I do what I do.
[00:13:55] Jessica Owens: Um, yeah, I was always interested in science and math and space in particular. I think I grew up in Florida and um, I watched a lot of space launches and I always wanted, I always wanted to go to space and I liked to, I liked physics and, um.
And I grew up outside, so I, I think biology in the natural world was always interesting to me. And then I worked at the CDC in in college and infectious disease, and the whole premise of how tiny, small viruses could take down giant organisms just blew my mind. It's fascinating. Yeah, it blew my
[00:14:32] Scott: mind.
Inside stories from the Centers for Disease Control after the break.
[00:14:42] Jessica Owens: And then I worked at the CDC in, in College and Infectious Disease, and I was, um, I thought I was gonna do that with my whole career, but I, as a, as a college student, sadly, um, a good friend of mine lost her mom to cancer and I thought, you know. That seems like a bigger problem than infectious disease. So I moved out to Stanford to the Department of Cancer Biology and you know, was gonna devote my entire career to cancer research.
And, you know, one thing led to another, I was just kind of always chasing scale. So it was like I could chase this one receptor on this one type of cancer and then moved from the lab, you know, to industry where I thought, well here in this company I can, I can chase lots of kinds of cancer and, and then to.
You know, Kleiner, you know, well, here I can work on lots of companies chasing lots of kinds of cancer. And, and so, you know, then I, I did an internship at Genentech and then worked at Genomic Health and, and then that, the call to Grail where it was like. Wow, could we detect all kinds of cancers early? And so I think that's just been the theme of my career is, is, and it hasn't all been oncology, but like how do you keep chasing scale and impact in a way that, um, you know, solves, solves human suffering and.
Moves the needle in a, in a big way that, you know, impacts a lot of lives.
[00:16:04] Scott: Let me ask you about the time at CDC. That's straight outta college, pretty much, right? Special pathogens. Are you wearing the space suit and all that?
[00:16:12] Jessica Owens: Yeah, so I was in the BSL three lab. I was not in the space suit lab. That's a BSL four lab.
Um, mostly 'cause it took a lot of time and training and it was kind of boring in there. You,
[00:16:25] Scott: you like go, go in. Well until you, it. Stab yourself in the finger. Yeah,
[00:16:29] Jessica Owens: yeah, yeah. It, it, you go in, you have to stay in for like eight hours and it's coming in and out was a pain. So I'd run the experiments before they went in and then the thing when they came out.
But yeah, that was the, those were the people I worked with and I worked on Hanavi, mostly on Han Virus and most of the Han virus work, uh, is in the BSL three lab.
[00:16:47] Scott: So you're at c, d, C in, in 96, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, hot Zone by Richard Preston. Comes out in 94. Yeah. So, I mean, you're in the middle of, because that was a, for those who don't remember the book or are too young to remember the book, first of all, it's a fantastic book.
Uh, but secondly, you know, it really hit America hard, that there was these people working on these incredibly difficult things. And there you are in the middle of all this glamor, right?
[00:17:12] Jessica Owens: I, I, I read that book and I found those people and I knocked down their doors and I asked them to give me a job. And there was a woman named Patricia Webb, who I never got to meet, but she was an alumni of Agnes Scott College, which was the women's college I went to in, in Atlanta.
And I was so inspired by her. Um, and she was. This incredible public health servant who, um, you know, walked through India, um, like vaccinating people against smallpox and, you know, she, she was, she was mentioned in the book, like she was in the way deep in the, um, you know, in the appendix. And I wanted to be.
Patricia Webb. And so I was like, I gotta like go find people at the CDC and get them to give me a job. And, you know, like email wasn't really a thing, right? No. Made it. No. You know, just, you just, you kind, I don't know how I did that. I, I was, I was really ambitious. I, I figured it out. I think I went to career planning at Agnes Scott and was like, how do I get a job at this place?
And I didn't really get a job at, in the special pathogens. Branch first I got a job, um, in, uh, the department of, uh, Ette Seal and Viral Zoonoses, but it was the floor above and we shared a cafeteria. So I would go downstairs and have lunch with all those people, and I like got to know them all and I figured out a way, like, I was like, well, can I get.
Like a summer internship or can I just work for free or can I wash your glassware? Or how can I, you know, how can I do anything for you guys? And um, it the funny, there was a funny woman who worked there. They were always looking for, um, people who would give blood for their, they would snap this thing for their, they needed fresh blood for some experiments they were doing.
And I was always like, you were
[00:18:49] Scott: the literal new blood in the Yeah,
[00:18:51] Jessica Owens: I was, I was like, I could do it. I don't really love it, but I'll do it. And anyway, it was. She would come around at lunch snapping her tourniquet. It's hilarious. They're funny, funny people. And you know, they're real, real public health servants.
Those people I worked with were incredible people. Really incredible people.
[00:19:09] Scott: Uh, the, the news lately where you see that, you know, oh, these government workers that don't work very hard or wasting money, or, you know, that giant misunderstanding about transsexual mice, uh, uh, that's gonna frustrate you. It's.
[00:19:22] Jessica Owens: It's hard because, you know, it's a big organization and I, I didn't, you know, I worked in a very small branch, uh, special pathogens was a small branch. I can tell you that when I worked there, I saw things that never made the news and we, we should all be really glad that those people cleaned those things up.
And we live in a different news cycle now, right? And maybe those things would make the news now, but I saw things that got cleaned up that didn't make the news. All over the world in the Philippines and in, I mean, things that were crazy. I didn't go there. The people I worked with went there and they convinced governments not to kill thousands of pigs with machine guns because it would've splattered blood all over the place and created airborne stuff.
I mean. Uh, crazy things that never made the news. And I always thought like, how strange it was that these people came home and went to sleep at night with their families. And we had company picnics in the nice park in Decatur, and they were just like nice, normal people, and their kids went to the public schools, you know, and I was, you know, I was, I was like, 20.
And what did I, what did I know?
[00:20:37] Scott: I mentioned, uh, how, how deeply hot zone, uh, affected me when I first read it and I would tell friends about it. And it sounds so stupid now because we all live through it, right? But I'd be like, guys, okay, so sci, the best scientists in the world say that that nature's always changing with viruses and things.
And they know, they know that there's going to be a virus that they don't know what it is or how it works or how to stop it, and it's gonna just devastate the united the whole. Earth is basically the point of the book he uses. Uh, was it Ebola Right. Uh, to get to that point? Yeah. Yeah. That's the, that's the, the, the point of the book.
And of course now we, we, everyone knows that.
[00:21:17] Jessica Owens: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:21:18] Scott: We, yeah. We, is there a point where you, when you were watching the news, you heard about what, what they call it? Coronavirus 19, I think was what they called it originally, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, that you thought. Oh, geez. It was, it was really awful.
[00:21:31] Jessica Owens: Yeah.
First there was like, the last place in the world I thought I'd be, when there was a global pandemic was like in my house, not out there doing something about it. Like that felt horrible. I was like, wait, no, this isn't where I'm supposed to be. I'm supposed to be out there like fighting, doing something.
That was, um, the other thing that was strange about it for me, um, was that. I deeply understood before, you know, when they shut schools, remember it was like, oh, spring break. Yeah. And then the kids will go back. You knew they would go back. I was like, oh no. Flatten the curve. I was like, oh, there's nothing on the other side.
Um, yeah, so that was all. That was all really hard. We built a, a school in our garage. We hired a teacher. We put like six kids. Um, you know, we just started kind of one foot in front of the other, but that was, that was really hard. That was just personally, I just felt like, you know, it was, yeah, it was personally really hard.
I, I think it was like also. There was, I felt helpless. Like there's nothing I could do. Like what could I do? And all these like point of care testing, what is I gonna do? Like help out, like there really felt helpless. That said, um, you know, uh, it also made me realize that like, the way it looked, the way it all went down.
Really wasn't what we thought it was gonna be. Right. We, we like the, the social distancing. Mm-hmm. And the, like, the masks, some of the stuff we contemplated as a society. Um, it, it really, we hadn't planned, we hadn't planned for it. And yet it's hard to know what to plan for when you don't know what the agent's gonna be.
Right. Right. Um, and so yeah, that was, that was a hard to plan for. The impact on the kids. The one thing I did was in, we were in a community where there were, um, it was a small community of 30 houses. And, um, the only thing I could do was try to be the voice of reason within our community to keep some normalcy for the kids.
To, to have, there was a community pool. I mean, it's the smallest thing to have, have a signup sheet so the older people felt safe and the children felt safe and keep some normalcy for these kids. And so also for our older people in our community, so they didn't feel so terribly afraid, which I, I can understand that they would, um.
And, you know, tried to, tried to be like, okay, so I'm the only one here who's actually worked at the CDC, so I know a little bit. I'm just gonna try to give some guidance. Right. But I mean, everyone was really scared and, um, yeah. And we're, we're forever changed, right? Yes. We, we are forever changed. We'd be ready
[00:24:21] Scott: for the next one.
You know, I realize it's been, uh, several decades since you were at the CDC, but with the, you know, will we be ready.
[00:24:30] Jessica Owens: Well, I think, I think we have now some history to draw on because this, this was not actually the first one because we can look at the HIV Epidemic and Pandemic as a a massive, massive global failure when we think about what happened in the blood supply.
Um, and then we'll look back at this one, and we botched this one as well. Um, so I would say probably not. I don't, I mean, I'm not sure what good looks like though, right? Yeah. Uh, what, what, what, what do we hope for. Um,
[00:25:09] Scott: I, when I look back at it and I look at the criticisms, you know, against, uh, the, the leadership or, or the scientists or, you know, mask, don't mask, I do genuinely believe they were doing the best they could.
The could. I, I think with the, with the information they had, absolutely. I think
[00:25:25] Jessica Owens: fauci iss a hero. Yes. A hero absolutely. Doing the best they could with the information they had as it was unfolding and it, that's all you can do. That's all you can do. Um, uh, I think HIV was different. I think we could have done more.
We could, we could have done more. We could have done more, um, yes,
[00:25:49] Scott: with the current environment, with science and, and, you know, scientific data disappearing from the web. And would you recommend, uh, a young woman or a young man go into science the way you did and head off to the CDC?
[00:26:04] Jessica Owens: Yes. Yes, we need, uh, what?
We can't give up. We cannot give up. And science is more exciting than it ever. It really is. Oh, it, I mean, science is more exciting than ever. Uh, we are learning more faster than we ever have. Um, I think the potential for, um. I mean, the intersection of AI and biology is incredible. It's captivating. Um, I, there's an area of, um, where everyone, no one wants to be in this space, but I'm captivated by it.
Um. I'm really excited about the potential for, um, continuous hormone monitoring. So we have continuous glucose monitoring, but um, we have no idea about how people's hormones fluctuate in a day. And when you think about the interface between both in men and women hormones and disease, um, cancers, um, in women, um.
Everything from fertility to PCOS, to breast cancer, to menopause. Um, I think that space is, is phenomenal. There'll be so much innovation around that. And I think there's a few young companies that are just beginning to get started there. Um, huge advances still in early detection of cancer. I mean, I'm, I'm talking about now, human health space.
Space is still all out there. Oh. Um, one of my, um. One of my cancer bio classmates, a woman named Kate Rubins, blows my mind. She's an astronaut. I mean, go to space kids. Um, she's the first, um, person to sequence DNA in space. Um, yeah, there just like, let's just keep doing science. There's so much good science to do.
And, um. It's only getting better. So I think we are in a, we're in a, we're in a moment where we can't give up. There's gonna be an, there's gonna be a lot of noise and that's okay.
[00:28:06] Scott: Jessica Owens of Initiate next week on Sandhill Road. What's the weirdest thing you found in a rental car?
[00:28:14] Next week's guest: Weirdest thing that I found in a rental car.
I mean, I wouldn't say that it's weird. Obviously, I'm sure you can imagine a lot of the kinds of things that we did find,
[00:28:25] Scott: and it is a podcast so we're not broadcasting over the years. Yeah. So the FCC doesn't count. Former rental car, car washer. Turned venture capitalist. Joe Alu of Daring Ventures. Have a minute, give us a rating on your favorite podcast service.
It helps surface our team's work in this busy world of online media. Wanna really tell us what you think or suggest a topic or guest, Sandhill Road at NBC UN i.com.